.jpg)
Wealthy After Divorce
Welcome to the Wealthy After Divorce Podcast! Hosts and Certified Divorce Financial Analysts® at Pearl Planning, Melissa Joy and Melissa Fradenburg, will roll out a new episode every other Thursday, with advice to improve financial decisions during and after the divorce process. Pearl Planning is a financial planning and wealth management practice located at 8031 Main Street in Dexter, Michigan, and 81 Kercheval Avenue, in Grosse Pointe Farms, Michigan. You can reach our offices at (734)274-6744 or (313) 486-9634. Investment advisory services offered by Pearl Planning, a DBA of Stephens Consulting LLC., an SEC registered investment adviser. Please remember that past performance may not be indicative of future results. Different types of investments involve varying degrees of risk, and there can be no assurance that the future performance of any specific investment, investment strategy, or product (including the investments and/or investment strategies recommended or undertaken by Pearl Planning, or any non-investment related content, made reference to directly or indirectly in this Podcast will be profitable, equal any corresponding indicated historical performance level(s), be suitable for your portfolio or individual situation, or prove successful. Due to various factors, including changing market conditions and/or applicable laws, the content may no longer be reflective of current opinions or positions. Moreover, you should not assume that any discussion or information contained in this newsletter serves as the receipt of, or as a substitute for, personalized investment advice from Pearl Planning. To the extent that a reader has any questions regarding the applicability of any specific issue discussed above to his/her individual situation, he/she is encouraged to consult with the professional advisor of his/her choosing. Pearl Planning is neither a law firm, nor a certified public accounting firm, and no portion of the newsletter content should be construed as legal or accounting advice. A copy of Pearl Planning’s current written disclosure Brochure discussing our advisory services and fees is available upon request or at www.pearlplan.com. Content represents the opinion of the speaker and not necessarily that of Pearl Planning.
Wealthy After Divorce
S2EP14:To Keep or Not to Keep, That is the HOUSE Question with Jacki Roessler
Fasten your seatbelts as we journey through analyzing your housing options during the seismic shift of divorce. We view this decision from all angles - financial and emotional. The road starts with a post-divorce budget and extends to considering other assets in the marital estate. To ease this complex decision, we illustrate how financial projections can help compare the outcomes of different paths. Whether you feel pulled towards keeping the house, selling it, or a buyout, it’s essential to scrutinize all options. We highlight the importance of seeking professional guidance from a certified divorce financial analyst or financial advisor. This episode is a valuable resource for anyone wrestling with this decision.
RESOURCES
- CLICK HERE to listen to Jacki's episode on creating a budget
- CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOAD OUR BUDGET WORKSHEET
- To read about how Pearl Planning can help you though your divorce or schedule an initial complimentary consult with Jacki, CLICK HERE
- If you're considering divorce and want some preliminary financial information, CLICK HERE
Links are being provided for information purposes only. We do not suggest that listening to this podcast will make you wealthy. Pearl Planning is not affiliated with and does not endorse the opinions or services of Brian Cohen or his affiliates. The information herein is general and educational in nature and should not be considered legal or tax advice. Tax laws and regulations are complex and subject to change, which can materially impact investment results. Pearl Planning cannot guarantee that the information herein is accurate, complete, or timely. Pearl Planning makes no warranties with regard to such information or results obtained by its use and disclaims any liability arising out of your use of, or any tax or legal position taken in reliance on, such information. Consult an attorney or tax professional regarding your specific situation. Please note, changes in tax laws or regulations may occur at any time and could substantially impact your situation. Pearl Planning financial advisors do not render advice on tax or legal matters. You should discuss any tax or legal matters with the appropriate professional.
Welcome to the Wealthy After Divorce podcast. Jackie Restler, a divorce financial planner with almost 25 years experience, and myself, melissa Freidenberg, financial advisor with Pearl Planning. We are both certified divorce financial analysts and your co-hosts.
Speaker 2:If you're thinking about divorce or in the process of divorce, this is a time for you to take a deep breath and give yourself permission to gain clarity on the financial decision they're facing, while the term wealth typically refers to money and possessions.
Speaker 1:We know that truly being wealthy means a whole lot more Together with our guests on this podcast. We will help you live wealthy after divorce.
Speaker 2:Hi everyone and welcome back to the Wealthy After Divorce podcast Today. This is Jackie Restler, and if you're in the process of divorce or considering divorce, I am so glad that you are here listening to this episode today, because today I am going to cover a topic that has come up in almost every single case I've had in the past 26 years. The primary question that most people have on their mind when they go and speak with a financial advisor about their divorce, where they sit down with me, the first thing that always comes up is I really want to know if I can afford to keep the house and if I should keep the house. So my episode today I want to try and shed some light on this topic. We are going to be talking about the options first. What are your options in terms of how to handle the house Number one? Then I'm going to go into some detail about the pros and cons of each of these options and finally, I'm going to finish up by letting you know what information you need to collect and gather to bring to a financial advisor or sit down and talk with your attorney about, so that you can make that really important analysis. Because remember, as a client of mine reminded me the other day, you only have one chance to get your settlement right and if this is the biggest decision that you have, you want to make sure that you take enough time and consideration before you make that decision based on emotions and not the financial piece and of course I know that those go together. The emotional aspect of keeping the house is important, whether it's a matter of keeping stability for your children, the fact that you have a community, the fact that you love your house, that you put a lot into it. Those are all important things that everyone takes into consideration when they're getting divorced. But what I'm going to focus on today is just the financial aspect. So just the facts.
Speaker 2:So, diving right in in terms of options, the first and easiest option is you put the house up for sale today and you split the proceeds. So what are the pros and cons of this One? It's certainly the simplest way to handle the house in a divorce. So there's that factor. Other benefits are you share the closing costs and commission on the sale with your soon-to-be former spouse. So if you keep the house and you're at some point, you're going to sell it in the future. You want to. That's going to be completely on you as far as the closing cost goes, not going to be taken into consideration in the division of your property settlement generally, unless you're planning to sell the house fairly soon. So you're going to share that closing cost of commission with your spouse. That's one financial benefit, another benefit that it's hard to put a price on.
Speaker 2:Speaking as someone who recently just sold their house after living there for 20 years, I can testify that there is a lot of mental, physical and financial effort and getting your house ready for sale moving, purging and Just getting all of those things down that you need to get down to prep it for sale is a major undertaking. So if you can share that task with someone else, that is certainly a benefit that you need to consider. As far as what the negatives are of this approach, obviously there is the the part about leaving the house and all of the Memories that you've put into the house, which for some people is a negative of selling the house and both people moving. It Means that your children if you have minor children or even adult children that come back home Aren't going to have that home, to that home base that that they're used to and that they're comfortable with. So those are some of the negatives and, of course, depending on where you live and when you're listening to this episode, it may not be a great time to sell your house now. I'm taping this in November of 2023, and it's a fantastic time to put your house up for sale. In Michigan, there is very little inventory on the market and houses are still selling pretty quickly Despite the fact that we're heading really fast into cold winter weather. So for for what I'm taping this, it's a very good time now. Of course, that changes over time. Sometimes it's a good time to sell, sometimes it's a bad time to sell, so it could be that the time that you're in it may not be the best Timing for selling, and that could be a negative.
Speaker 2:Another option For that how to treat the house, of course is that one person stays in the house and buys out the other person's interest. So, in order to do that, there usually would have to be a value for the house that you, that you both stipulate to or you both agree, or there has to be a formal appraisal done if one person is going to buy out the other person's interest. So in order to do that you'd want to know what the fair market value is by getting an appraisal Again, are stipulating to that amount Minus the mortgage, any home equity loan that you also have against the house, and you would determine what the equity is. And then you would pay out you, your spouse, their share of the equity. And there's a couple of different ways that that could happen. So let's, I'm gonna use my try to true example of Bill and Sue. So let's say that Bill and Sue are getting divorced and their house has a value of $500,000 and they have a $250,000 mortgage against the house. So the total equity in the house, or the value minus any debt against it, is also $250,000. So each one of them are entitled to receive $125,000 or half of that equity, if that's what their settlement is.
Speaker 2:So let's say that Sue is gonna keep the house, so she needs to be able to pay Bill his $125,000 in equity. And there are a few different ways that that could happen. One way is that she refinances the loan into her own name and also gets an additional amount of that loan to pay out Bill's interest. So her new loan would be $250,000 plus $125,000, which would be the cash to pay him out his interest. So as you're listening to this, you can probably already hear what the problem is. Sue, who might have been out of the workforce, let's say maybe can't afford the payment that new hire loan amount, and she's gonna lose that fantastic interest rate that she had, which for a lot of clients right now that I see, their interest rate is 1.5%, 2%, certainly less than three, because they refinanced wisely when interest rates were so low and right now interest rates are high. So not only is Sue going to get hit with that higher payment due to an interest rate, but also she's going to have a larger loan.
Speaker 2:Another option for Sue would be, if there's cash available or investment accounts post-tax accounts that are being split, sue would just take $125,000 less of those accounts and she would not actually refinance the loan. If that were the case, she would still need to remove Bill's name from that mortgage. And there are a few ways that that could be done. One is with an assumption of the loan, which I have actually an episode coming up in a couple of weeks with a friend of our podcast, erica Powers, to talk about everything you ever wanted to know about loan assumptions. So that is one option. Another option is that if the lender allows a release of liability on the loan, that's another option. A third option would be to take less. This is what I see happen most frequently. Sue takes less money in retirement accounts in order to keep the house without having to pay Bill out his interest, which means that she might be sacrificing some of her retirement to stay in that house today.
Speaker 2:Another third option would be they decide to kick the can down the road and Bill and Sue decide to keep their house and retain it jointly for some period of time. So they're not gonna sell it right now. Neither one is gonna buy the other one out. Let's say that Bill decides he wants to keep the house, he's gonna be the primary owner and the primary occupant. He's gonna have primary physical occupancy of the house. He will make the mortgage payment and they will split the proceeds at some point in the future, either by Bill buying out Sue's interest or by selling the house in the future and splitting the proceeds in some way. So let's go back to the a little bit of an understanding of what the financials look like in that scenario.
Speaker 2:In that scenario, let's say Bill and Sue. Again, they're selling. The house is worth $500,000. There's a $250,000 mortgage. So one option is that they put into the agreement set in two years. So they're gonna have to going back to that. Bill decides he's either going to buy out Sue's interest at the set value that it's worth today, and so he's going to give her $125,000 in two years, or they sell the house and he's going to give her $125,000 in two years. That's one option.
Speaker 2:Another option is what a lot of people do. They say we are going to Bill's going to have primary occupancy, he's going to make the mortgage payment and he's going to get credit for any portion of the principal he pays down. But whenever we sell the house, for net of closing costs and commission, we split. So let's say, the house increases in value from $500 to $750, which is not out of the realm of what's happened in recent years, actually in many of my cases. So now what's going to happen is that Sue is going to get a lot more than $125,000. So her dollar amount from the house is going to go up considerably. That might be a good thing for her, not such a good thing for Bill. So you want to think about the pros and cons of what the numbers of that might look like. And in that scenario of splitting the net proceeds in the future, after giving the person who's been paying the mortgage credit for the principal reduction, it could be that the house is actually worth less than what was agreed upon on the date of divorce, and if that's the case, then both people are going to get less. So there is risk to doing that. Either way, it's important that you just consider what those risks are.
Speaker 2:Ok, so to put it all together, we've talked about three potential ways that you could handle the marital home if you're getting divorced. By the way, there are other options. You can really think out of the box and be creative. There's nesting there. There might be all different kinds of ways that this could be handled, but these are just the three main ways. So, sell the house now. Split the proceeds. One person buys out the other one's interest today. Or option number three you kick the can down the road and you decide that you're going to retain it jointly and you are going to decide in the future who's going to keep the house. So one person stays in it with the idea that they have a certain number of years until they make the decision if they're going to buy out the other party's interest or sell it.
Speaker 2:At that point, the real crux of this episode comes down to this next portion. So I hope that, as a listener, you're still. You're still with us, because this is the important part. How do you make these decisions? So we I know that again, we already discussed that there are emotional aspects to these, to this decision.
Speaker 2:When somebody comes to me and they have this question what should I do with the house? Is it best for me to keep it, sell it? Is it best for me to give it to my spouse? Is it best for us to retain it jointly? What do I? What do I look at in order to help them analyze that?
Speaker 2:Number one, I want to see what their post divorce budget looks like. So I'm going to link in the show notes here the episode I taped on budgeting and also, as well, a link to our budget worksheet. That's one of the places that everybody has to start with. I need to see on paper what their living expenses are anticipated to be post divorce. So that might include keeping the same mortgage. It might include having to refinance, take out a loan assumption. Maybe you can have the same rate. All of those different options need to be considered and evaluated for how realistic they are. So that's number one. So all of your other living expenses too.
Speaker 2:The second thing that I need to look at is what is the potential settlement going to be? So what other assets are you going to be receiving? What are the other assets in your marital estate and what would that look like if you decided that you're keeping the house? What would you? How would you buy out the other spouse? What assets do you have? So that's important, a important piece of the puzzle. Then what I do is I take that information and I run financial projections that show my client what they would look like if they, five years, 10 years, 20 years, if they keep the house, versus selling the house, versus buying out or having the other spouse buy them out.
Speaker 2:So those are all you know. Those are all things that we look at with financial projections, and the only way that I have to do that is by incorporating in their living expenses that are anticipated, their other assets that they're going to receive and rate the rate of inflation. We've taken into consideration any earnings on investment assets or retirement assets, and all of that goes into the projections that my client can look at and say, oh okay, so I'm going to keep the house. I see that I'm going to have a tougher time making it in retirement if I do that. Well, that's important information for that client to have. So I always tell clients I don't ever want to be the one making the decision for them on what's the right choice for them, but it's.
Speaker 2:I think it's incredibly valuable for everybody who is considering what to do with their house and a divorce that they look at all the options from every angle that they can and make a decision based on an educated idea of what could or couldn't happen. Now no one has a crystal ball and no one can tell you exactly what's going to happen in the housing market or with interest rates or with their job going forward, what the spousal support or the spousal maintenance, depending on where you live, the alimony amount may or may not be the. If you're the payer or the receiver, that also has to go into the equation and all of these things work together to help clients evaluate what is the best decision for them. So there isn't any one right answer that's right for everyone, and there could be more than one right answer for each client.
Speaker 2:So again, it's really important this piece of you know what do I do at the house is so much more than what you can qualify for in a mortgage or what is what you think is best for your children. It really is taking a look at all of the financial aspects and putting it together, and that's part of my job that I really enjoy the most. So finding a CDFA in your local area, a certified divorce financial analyst, that can help you with this, is one option. Another option is to talk about it with your lawyer or even, if you have a current financial advisor, to have your current financial advisor try to help you analyze all of the options for you before you make a decision. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you know someone that you think this could be helpful to hear, please share this episode with them. And if you have any ideas for us on future topics of things that you would really love for us to cover, we'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to the Wealthy After Divorce podcast. You can find more information on Melissa Friedenberg and Jackie Ressler on our website, wwwpearlplancom, as well as on our podcast website, wwwwealthyafterdivorcecom.
